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Talk:Stormwind Party for Labour
Okay, so I'm going to just make a few points here, focused around the 'policy list' for this party. Keep in mind, this is all personal opinion. 1. Citizenship: There really isn't any evidence (that I can find) to support the idea that one must be a Stormwind Citizen to live in Stormwind. The city has an entire quarter devoted to Dwarves, and had (before it got blown up) a park filled with Night Elves. Draenei, Worgen and Gnomes can also be found living in the city which seems to imply that there is no 'citizenship' requirement. Now Death Knights and Demon Hunters might need special permissions before they can settle, but otherwise, I just don't see it. 2. Education: Education is not something that everyone gets in the Warcraft universe, although that varies between racial cultures and kingdoms. The book 'Of Blood and Honor' implies that education is only given to those with position or wealth as the rank and file soldiers who captured Thrall after his escape from the Internment Camps, could not read the letters Thrall was given by Taretha. Now obviously that's something the SLP can campaign to change, but it's still important to note that it goes heavily against the status quo. Also, tertiary education, the idea of it didn't really exist, and the price tag you've put on it literally means that everyone would be getting finacial support, quickly bankrupting the Kingdom as earning 100k gold a year is something only the most powerful merchants would be able to do (nobles technically don't work, so they only earn what their subjects on their lands pay them in taxes and tributes) 3. Horde-Alliance Relations: The idea of a 'visa' is extremely modern and has absolutely no place in the warcraft universe. Hell, visas and passports only became necessary for us after 1918. Travel documents could certainly be a thing, but the idea of applying for a visa, is not. That's far too modern. Ultimately, roleplay what you want, but I find those three points to be particularily on the nose. It feels like this is basically a set of policies transported from the modern world into the game, with little thought given to how it would fit in a quasi-medieval society. Aretain King (talk) 09:00, October 8, 2016 (UTC) Adding to what Aretain mentioned, if you were going for what someone earning 100,000 a year in modern times would be earning in WoW, you would be looking at between 100 and 200 gold per year if you consider 1 gold to equal 1 High Medieval/Early Enlightenment Pound or 40 to 80 per year if you consider 1 gold to be equal to 1 High Medieval/Early Enlightenment Shilling. Also, anti-conscription would be extremely radical in any quasi-medieval society, given that it, or more correctly feudal service, was the entire basis for any medieval army (and sometimes the navy as well). Even during the Enlightenment (which is a good comparison for the WoW time period) when things started to move toward more professional armies, quite a few nations still used some form of feudal service like the Swedish Allotment Systemor British Trained Bands. Quasi-medieval conscription would also be less of a "Randomised selection is required to serve in the army" and more like "If a peasant serves in their noble's levies, they therefore pay 20% less taxes that month/year" Finally, Citizenship would less "You're an illegal immigrant if you don't have it" and more "If you're a citizen, you get more rights but have to pay taxes/serve in the military". Other than those points, this looks great. Stormwind needs more political roleplay, in my opinion. EDIT: Also, given that Stormwind has a tendancy to use American English spellings in game I would personally rename the party to "Stormwind Party for Labor" and instead use the British/Australian Spellings for Gilnean stuff. Vannesira Smith (talk) 10:21, October 8, 2016 (UTC) Hi, thank you for bringing these things up! Obviously this is still in the development stage: the House of Commons hasn't even been ICly established yet. Firstly, I think citizenship in cities would play some sort of role (You wouldn't want anyone to come in and live in your city. I'd change it from Stormwind citizenship to simply requiring an Alliance citizenship of sorts). Secondly the education is something they're campaigning. I was iffy on the financial support but keep in mind that this party is pretty left-wing, so not everything is going to be possible. Sometimes we dream too big. But that's okay! I will probably remove it anyway. What I really do want is a blend between modern and medieval as that's how the warcraft universe is designed. As such, your critism has been greatly appreciated. I don't know why I added visa. I think I meant it as in conversions or something. I sort of went along there at the end. Thanks. <3 Admiral Ranets Daggerfang (talk) 13:09, October 8, 2016 (UTC) Oh and Vann...No. :P Labour. I will never abandon true English. Stormwindian can go to Fel. Admiral Ranets Daggerfang (talk) 13:10, October 8, 2016 (UTC) Good point, if you look at the 18-20th century labour groups then they were rather radical, come to think of it. A for the citizenship part, some form of check would probably be needed due to the whole "influx of cultists" isue. The last thing I forgot to mention is that this line: "Moreover, the Party wishes to end de facto slavery conducted by Nobles to their servants, whom though bound to their service, is paid little to nothing for decent work." is an incorrect assumption of how feudalism worked. Actual feudalism worked as follows: #Only the lowest ranks of peasants, called villiens, were bound to their noble and this class had mostly disappeared by/during the Enlightenment. In most countries over 90% of the peasants were free to come and go as they pleased, although leaving would mean they lost their job and land, which was owned by the noble. In essence it was a primitive mix of a modern rent agreement and a modern job contract. #The "is paid little to nothing for decent work" is also wrong. Although they weren't paid in cash, the work done by the peasants was a form of tax and rent payment for those who lacked sufficient liquid assets. In return for the rent, the peasants got to keep their land, in return for the taxes, the nobility had to provide their peasants with: *A basic form of civil services *Defence *Food (only in some cases) I would suggest changing that aim to something like "Moreover, the Party wishes to end the abuse of feudal agreements by many in the noble classes and enforce the nobility to keep to their obligations of defence and other services." As the main issue was the nobles refusing to uphold their obligations and the peasantry having no form of recourse. Also, I applaud your devotion to the true English language. Even if our own Labor Party has forgotten it. Vannesira Smith (talk) 13:27, October 8, 2016 (UTC) Financial support isn't entirely bad, the problem is that you set the price tag far too high. If the amount of gold per year you need to earn to pay for your own education is 100,000g a year, then that means almost everyone will be requiring assistance from the kingdom to pay for the education, because as stated, only the richest merchants would have that much coin coming in. Everyone else would be taking money from the kingdom. If you set it a lot lower (closer to where Vann suggested) then you have less people requiring kingdom support, which ultimately works out better for the kingdom. There would still be a lot of people mostly low class / poor individuals who would need support, but the kingdom wouldn't be in such dire straits. Oh and, it should be noted that Labour and Labor are interchangable, even in places where british english is used instead of american english. For example, Australia is a country that uses british english (so the letter U is used in words like colour, armour and labour) but the name of one of the main political parties is the Australian Labor Party, no U. Aretain King (talk) 13:33, October 8, 2016 (UTC) Is the root of the party a union, or a trade guild? Arathorstories (talk) 16:33, October 8, 2016 (UTC) It's neither. It's just a political party. No ties to unions, but it campaigns for the same things. As the party and WoW progresses, the platform will change with it. Admiral Ranets Daggerfang (talk) 19:53, October 8, 2016 (UTC)